Ravencoin. Nachrichten, Kurs, Token - BitcoinWiki

Ravencoin Open Developer Meeting - 1/4/2019

[14:04] Hi everyone! [14:04] :dabbitwave: [14:04] Hey Everybody! [14:04] Hello 😃 [14:04] Sorry we're getting started a bit late. [14:04] Topics: SLC Meetup (March 15th) [14:04] 👋 [14:04] Roadmap breakdown - posted to github [14:05] IPFS (integration) [14:05] greetings 👋 [14:05] So, SLC Meetup on the 15th! [14:05] Great! [14:05] Hi! [14:06] Hi all — a special thanks to the developers and congratulations on an amazing first year!!! # [14:06] <[Dev] Blondfrogs> Hello Everyone! [14:07] We have a tentative agenda with @Tron , @corby speaking. [14:08] We would like to have nice walkthrough of the Raven DevKit for the meetup. [14:08] We are planning on hosting a meetup in SLC at the Overstock building on March 15th from 6:00pm-9:00pm. It is free admission, but there is a page on meetup.com where people can rsvp so that we have a somewhat accurate headcount for food. [14:08] sup guys [14:08] hey russ [14:09] We are planning on having a few speakers and have allotted a bit of time at the end for people to meet and greet each other. [14:09] can you guys link us to the page somewhere when thats available? 😄 [14:10] free food?! [14:10] todays topic? [14:10] yeah can we indicate pepperoni pizza [14:10] Sounds good to me @Jeroz Nothing ordered yet though. 😃 [14:10] only pepperoni pizza is served at true blockchain meetings right [14:10] :blobhide: [14:10] Absolutely. The itinerary just needs to be finalized and then I'll make a broad post about the rest of the details. [14:11] https://www.meetup.com/Salt-Lake-City-salt-lake-city-Meetup/ [14:11] 😭 so far away [14:11] West Coast! [14:11] @MTarget But there's pizza, so worth the travel time. [14:11] lol [14:12] I'll be watching the stream if its available since i'm from montreal/canada 😛 [14:12] Ah yes, I love $300 pizza 😉 [14:12] as long as I get to see your smiling faces @Tron @RavencoinDev then it's worth the time [14:12] We'll be there. [14:12] We'll be messaging additional details as they get finalized. [14:12] Greeting and salutations! [14:12] sup [14:13] Hey, $300 is considerably cheaper than 2 $3,700,000 pizzas. [14:14] Ok, switching topics... [14:14] yeah its a way to fly, [14:14] question is whether those piza's will be paid for in RVN coin or not :ThinkBlack: [14:14] Roadmap [14:14] It hasn't changed, just added some detail. [14:14] https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/tree/masteroadmap [14:15] nice [14:15] This now links to a breakdown for messaging, voting, anti-spam, and rewards (dividends) [14:15] will there be any additional RPC functionality coming in the future, thinking in terms of some functions that are only available in ravencore-lib [14:15] apologies if now is not time to ask questions, i can wait for later [14:15] "Phase 7 - Compatibility Mode" - that's new 😮 [14:15] The protocol for messaging is pretty well established, but the rest isn't in stone (code) yet. [14:16] can you give us details on compatibility mode? [14:16] In broad brush strokes. [14:17] The idea is to allow ravend to act as a daemon that looks like a single coin. [14:17] so ravend that only works with the bitcoin asset? [14:18] interesting [14:19] So you start it with an option to only work with a single asset/token account or something? [14:19] hmm compelling what is the reason for this? some kind of scale or performance? [14:19] ^ [14:19] Example: Configure ravend to listen for transfer RPC call for senttoaddress or sendfrom, but for a specific asset. This would allow easy integration into existing system for assets. [14:20] Only the daemon or the whole wallet UI? [14:20] yeah thats great, rpc functions dont allow us to do this yet, if i recall [14:20] or at least we depend more on ravencore lib [14:20] so like asset zmq [14:20] that's smart [14:20] @Tron it also sounds like it makes our life easier working with RPC, instead of core all the time for some functionality [14:21] if i understand correctly anyways [14:21] So you could run numerous instances of ravend each on their own network and RPC port, each configured for a different asset. You would need some balance of RVN in each one to cover transaction fees, then. [14:21] id be curious to know what all the advantages are of this [14:21] one more question, how would i decentralize the gateway between bitcoin mainnet/ravencoin mainnet? in the current RSK implementation they use a federated gateway, how would we avoid this? [14:21] it sounds neato [14:21] Just the daemon. The alternative is to get exchanges to adapt to our RPC calls for assets. It is easier if it just looks like Bitcoin, Litecoin or RVN to them, but it is really transferring FREE_HUGS [14:22] That makes sense. Should further increased exchange adoption for each asset. [14:22] hmm yeah its just easier for wallet integration because its basically the same as rvn and bitcoin but for a specific asset [14:22] so this is in specific mind of exchange listings for assets i guess [14:23] if i understand rightly [14:23] @traysi Gut feel is to allow ravend to handle a few different assets on different threads. [14:23] Are you going to call it kawmeleon mode? [14:23] Lol [14:23] I read that as kaw-melon mode. [14:24] same lol [14:24] so in one single swoop it possible to create a specific wallet and server daemon for specific assets. great. this makes it easier for exchanges, and has some added advantages with processing data too right? [14:24] Still keeping a RVN balance in the wallet, as well, Tron. How will that work is sendtoaddress sends the token instead of the RVN? A receive-RVN/send tokens-only wallet? [14:25] @traysi Yes [14:25] sendtoaddress on the other port (non RVN port) would send the asset. [14:25] This will be a hugely useful feature. [14:25] ^ [14:26] @Tron currently rpc function not support getaddresses senttowallet and this has to be done in ravencore lib, will this change you propose improve this situation [14:26] Config might look like {"port":2222, "asset":"FREE_HUGS", "rpcuser":"hugger", "rpcpass":"gi3afja33"} [14:26] how will this work cross-chain? [14:28] @push We'd have to go through the rpc calls and work out which ones are supported in compatibility mode. Obviously the mining ones don't apply. And some are generic like getinfo. [14:28] ok cool 👍 cheers [14:29] for now we continue using ravencore lib for our plans to keep track i just wondering if better way [14:29] as we had some issue after realising no rpc function for getting addresses of people who had sent rvn [14:29] @push | ravenland.org all of the node explorer and ravencore-lib functionality is based on RPC (including the addressindex-related calls). Nothing you can't do with RPC, although I'm not sure of the use cases you're referring to.. [14:29] interesting, so ravencore lib is using getrawtransaction somehow [14:29] i thought this may be the case [14:29] that is very useful thankyou for sharing this [14:30] look into addressindex flag and related RPC calls for functions that operate on addresses outside your wallet [14:30] thank you that is very useful, tbh i am not very skilled programmer so just decoding the hex at the raven-cli commandline was a challenge, i shall look more into this, valued information thanks as this was a big ? for us [14:31] Ok, things have gone quiet. New topic. [14:31] IPFS (integration) [14:31] GO [14:33] ... [14:33] <[Dev] Blondfrogs> So, we have been adding ipfs integration into the wallet for messaging. This will allow the wallets to do some pretty sweet stuff. For instance, you will be able to create your ipfs data file for issuing an asset. Push it to ipfs from the wallet, and add the hash right into the issuance data. This is going to allow for a much more seamless flow into the app. [14:34] <[Dev] Blondfrogs> This ofcourse, will also allow for users to create messages, and post them on ipfs and be able to easily and quickly format and send messages out on the network with ipfs data. [14:34] It will also allow optional meta-data with each transaction that goes in IPFS. [14:34] will i be able to view ipfs images natively in the wallet? [14:34] <[Dev] Blondfrogs> Images no [14:34] We discussed the option to disable all IPFS integration also. [14:35] @russ (kb: russkidooski) Probably not. There's some risk to being an image viewer for ANY data. [14:35] No option in wallet to opt into image viewing? [14:35] cool so drag and drop ipfs , if someone wanted to attach an object like an image or a file they could drag drop into ui and it create hash and attach string to transaction command parameters automatically [14:35] We could probably provide a link -- with a warning. [14:35] nomore going to globalupload.io [14:35] :ThinkBlack: [14:35] I understand that the wallet will rely on globalupload.io. (phase 1). Is it not dangerous to rely on an external network? Or am I missing something? [14:36] hmm [14:36] interesting, i suppose you could hash at two different endpoints and compare them [14:36] if you were that worried [14:36] and only submit one to the chain [14:36] You will be able to configure a URL that will be used as an IPFS browser. [14:36] Oh ic [14:36] you wont flood ipfs because only one hash per unique file [14:36] <[Dev] Blondfrogs> There are multiple options for ipfs integration. We are building it so you can run your own ipfs node locally. [14:36] <[Dev] Blondfrogs> or, point it to whatever service you would like. e.g. cloudflare [14:36] this is very cool developments, great to see this [14:37] Just like the external block explorer link currently in preferences. [14:37] @[Dev] Blondfrogs what about a native ipfs swarm for ravencoin only? [14:37] We have discussed that as an option. [14:37] @push | ravenland.org Considering having a fallback of upload through globalupload.io and download through cloudflare. [14:37] <[Dev] Blondfrogs> @russ (kb: russkidooski) We talked about that, but no decisions have been made yet. [14:37] yeah, i would just use two endpoints and strcompare the hash [14:37] as long as they agree good [14:37] submit tran [14:38] else 'potentially mysterious activity' [14:38] ? [14:38] if you submitted the file to ipfs api endpoints [14:38] Will the metadata just be a form with text only fields? [14:39] and then you would get 2 hashes, from 2 independent services [14:39] that way you would not be relying on a central hash service [14:39] and have some means of checking if a returned hash value was intercepted or transformed [14:39] i was answering jeroz' question [14:40] about relying on a single api endpoint for upload ipfs object [14:40] We have also kicked around the idea of hosting our own JSON only IPFS upload/browse service. [14:41] I have a service like this that is simple using php [14:41] we only use it for images right now [14:41] but fairly easy to do [14:41] Yup [14:42] Further questions about IPFS? [14:43] contract handling? file attach handling? or just text fields to generate json? [14:44] trying to get an idea of what the wallet will offer for attaching data [14:44] Probably just text fields that meet the meta-data spec. [14:44] ok noted [14:44] What do you mean by contract handling @sull [14:45] We won't prevent other hashes from being added. [14:45] asset contract (pdf etc) hash etc [14:45] <[Dev] Blondfrogs> also, being able to load from a file [14:45] got it, thanks [14:47] Let's do some general Q&A [14:48] Maybe just a heads up or something to look for in the future but as of right now, it takes roughly 12 hours to sync up the Qt-wallet from scratch. Did a clean installation on my linux PC last night. [14:48] Any plans or discussions related to lack of privacy of asset transfers and the ability to front run when sending to an exchange? [14:48] ^ [14:48] Is there a way to apply to help moderate for example the Telegram / Discord, i spend alot of time on both places, sometimes i pm mods if needed. [14:49] Any developed plans for Asset TX fee adjustment? [14:49] also this^ [14:49] @mxL86 We just created a card on the public board to look into that. [14:49] General remark: https://raven.wiki/wiki/Development#Phase_7_-_Compatible_Mode = updated reflecting Tron's explanation. [14:49] @mxL86 That's a great question. We need to do some profiling and speed it up. I do know that the fix we added from Bitcoin (that saved our bacon) slowed things down. [14:50] Adding to @mxL86 the sync times substantially increased coinciding with the asset layer activation. Please run some internal benchmarks and see where the daemon is wasting all its cycles on each block. We should be able to handle dozens per second but it takes a couple seconds per block. [14:50] @BW__ no plans currently for zk proofs or anything if that's what you're asking [14:50] You are doing a great job. Is there a plan that all this things (IPFS) could be some day implemented in mobile wallet? Or just in QT? [14:50] i notice also that asset transactions had some effect on sync time as we were making a few. Some spikes i not analysed the io and cpu activity properly but will if there is interest [14:51] we are testing some stuff so run into things i am happy to share [14:51] @BW__ Might look at Grin and Beam to see if we can integrate Mimble Wimble -- down the road. [14:51] yeees [14:51] @J. | ravenland.org work with the telegram mods. Not something the developers handle. [14:51] i love you [14:51] @J. | ravenland.org That would be best brought up with the operators/mods of teh telegram channel. [14:51] @corby @Tron thnx [14:51] @S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org we're planning on bumping fees to... something higher! [14:51] no catastrophic failures, just some transaction too smals, and mempool issues so far, still learning [14:52] @corby i thought that this may happen :ThinkBlack: [14:52] @corby x10? 100x? 1000x? Ballpark? [14:52] Definitely ballpark. [14:52] 😃 [14:52] 😂 [14:52] Is a ballpark like a googolplex? [14:53] @push | ravenland.org asset transactions are definitely more expensive to sync [14:53] yes yes they are [14:53] they are also more expensive to make i believe [14:53] 10,000x! [14:53] as some sync process seems to occur before they are done [14:53] @traysi ★★★★★ thanks for the suggestions we are going to be looking at optimizations [14:53] But, it is way slower than we like. Going to look into it. [14:53] i do not understand fully its operation [14:53] 1000x at minimum in my opinion [14:53] its too easy to spam the network [14:54] yes there has been some reports of ahem spam lately [14:54] :blobhide: [14:54] 😉 [14:54] cough cough ravenland [14:54] @russ (kb: russkidooski) we're in agreement -- it's too low [14:54] default fee 0.001 [14:54] ^ something around here [14:54] @corby yep we all are i think [14:55] waaay too low [14:55] meaningful transactions start with meaningful capital expense [14:55] though there is another scenario , there are some larger volume, more objective rich use cases of the chain that would suffer considerably from that [14:55] just worth mentioning, as i have beeen thinking about this a lot [14:55] there are some way around, like i could add 1000 ipfs hashes to a single unique entity, i tested this and it does work [14:56] @russ (kb: russkidooski) What would you suggest. [14:57] I had a PR for fee increase and push back. [14:57] Ignore the push back. 0.001 RVN is not even a micro-farthing in fiat terms [14:57] definitely around 1000x [14:57] Vocal minority for sure [14:57] ^ yep [14:57] @russ (kb: russkidooski) That sounds reasonable. [14:57] Couple hundred Fentons [14:58] right now an asset transaction is 0.01 of a penny essentially [14:58] 1 RVN would work now, but not when RVN is over $1. [14:58] yes exactly [14:58] Hi. Late to the party. [14:58] We are also talking about a min fee. The system will auto-adapt if blocks fill up. [14:58] im thinking tron, some heavy transaction use cases would fall out of utility use if that happened [14:58] so whats the thinking there [14:59] is there a way around the problem, bulked ipfs hash transactions? [14:59] 1000x would put us around btc levels [14:59] maybe a minimum 500x? [14:59] @russ (kb: russkidooski) Agreed. [14:59] <[Dev] Blondfrogs> It is time to wrap it up here. Everyone. Thank you all for your questions and thoughts. We will be back in 2 weeks. 😃 [14:59] Small increase and review. [14:59] Thanks all! [14:59] Cheers. [15:00] yeah sorry for 1 million questions guys hope i didnt take up too much time [15:00] cheers all 👍 [15:00] Thanks everyone [15:00] Thanks everyone for participating!!! [15:00] That is what we are here for [15:00] 100x-500x increase, 1000x maximum [15:00] 🍺

submitted by Chatturga to Ravencoin [link] [comments]

IRC Log from Ravencoin Open Developer Meeting - Aug 24, 2018

[14:05] <@wolfsokta> Hello Everybody, sorry we're a bit late getting started
[14:05] == block_338778 [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.72.214.222.226] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[14:06] <@wolfsokta> Here are the topics we would like to cover today • 2.0.4 Need to upgrade - What we have done to communicate to the community • Unique Assets • iOS Wallet • General Q&A
[14:06] == Chatturga changed the topic of #ravencoin-dev to: 2.0.4 Need to upgrade - What we have done to communicate to the community • Unique Assets • iOS Wallet • General Q&A
[14:06] <@wolfsokta> Daben, could you mention what we have done to communicate the need for the 2.0.4 upgrade?
[14:07] == hwhwhsushwban [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.172.58.37.35] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[14:07] <@wolfsokta> Others here are free to chime in where they saw the message first.
[14:07] == hwhwhsushwban [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.172.58.37.35] has quit [Client Quit]
[14:08] Whats up bois
[14:08] hi everyone
[14:08] hi hi
[14:08] <@wolfsokta> Discussing the 2.0.4 update and the need to upgrade.
[14:08] <@Chatturga> Sure. As most of you are aware, the community has been expressing concerns with the difficulty oscillations, and were asking that something be done to the difficulty retargeting. Many people submitted suggestions, and the devs decided to implement DGW.
[14:09] <@Tron> I wrote up a short description of why we're moving to a new difficulty adjustment. https://medium.com/@tronblack/ravencoin-dark-gravity-wave-1da0a71657f7
[14:09] <@Chatturga> I have made posts on discord, telegram, bitcointalk, reddit, and ravencointalk.org from testnet stages through current.
[14:10] <@Chatturga> If there are any other channels that can reach a large number of community members, I would love to have more.
[14:10] <@wolfsokta> Thanks Tron, that hasn't been shared to the community at large yet, but folks feel free to share it.
[14:10] When was this decision made and by whom and how?
[14:10] <@Chatturga> I have also communicated with the pool operators and exchanges about the update. Of all of the current pools, only 2 have not yet updated versions.
[14:11] <@wolfsokta> The decision was made by the developers through ongoing requests for weeks made by the community.
[14:12] <@wolfsokta> Evidence was provided by the community of the damages that could be caused to projects when the wild swings continue.
[14:12] So was there a meeting or vote? How can people get invited
[14:12] <@Tron> It was also informed by my conversations with some miners that recommended that we make the change before the coin died. They witnessed similar oscillations from which other coins never recovered.
[14:13] only two pools left to upgrade is good, what about the exchanges? Any word on how many of those have/have not upgraded?
[14:13] <@wolfsokta> We talked about here in our last meeting Bruce_. All attendees were asked if they had any questions or concerns.
[14:13] == blondfrogs [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.185.245.87.219] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[14:13] == roshii [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.41.251.25.100] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[14:13] sup roshii long time no see
[14:14] <@Chatturga> Bittrex, Cryptopia, and IDCM have all either updated or have announced their intent to update.
[14:14] == wjcgiwgu283ik3cj [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.172.58.37.35] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[14:15] sup russki
[14:15] what's the status here?
[14:15] I don’t think that was at all clear from the last dev meeting
[14:15] I can’t be the only person who didn’t understand it
[14:15] <@wolfsokta> Are there any suggestions on how to communicate the need to upgrade even further? I am concerned that others might also not understand.
[14:17] I’m not sold on the benefit and don’t understand the need for a hard fork — I think it’s a bad precedent to simply go rally exchanges to support a hard fork with little to no discussion
[14:17] so just to note, the exchanges not listed as being upgraded or have announced their intention to upgrade include: qbtc, upbit, and cryptobridge (all with over $40k usd volume past 24 hours according to coinmarketcap)
[14:18] <@wolfsokta> I don't agree that there was little or no discussion at all.
[14:19] <@wolfsokta> Looking back at our meeting notes from two weeks ago "fork" was specifically asked about by BrianMCT.
[14:19] If individual devs have the power to simple decide to do something as drastic as a hard fork and can get exchanges and miners to do it that’s got a lot of issues with centralization
[14:19] <@wolfsokta> It had been implemented on testnet by then and discussed in the community for several weeks before that.
[14:19] == under [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.72.200.168.56] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[14:19] howdy
[14:19] Everything I’ve seen has been related to the asset layer
[14:19] I have to agree with Bruce_, though I wasn't able to join the last meeting here. That said I support the fork
[14:20] Which devs made this decision to do a fork and how was it communicated?
[14:20] well mostly the community made the decision
[14:20] Consensus on a change is the heart of bitcoin development and I believe the devs have done a great job building that consensus
[14:20] a lot of miners were in uproar about the situation
[14:20] <@wolfsokta> All of the devs were supporting the changes. It wasn't done in isolation at all.
[14:21] This topic has been a huge discussion point within the RVN mining community for quite some time
[14:21] the community and miners have been having issues with the way diff is adjusted for quite some time now
[14:21] Sure I’m well aware of that -
[14:21] Not sold on the benefits of having difficulty crippled by rented hashpower?
[14:21] The community saw a problem. The devs got together and talked about a solution and implemented a solution
[14:21] I’m active in the community
[14:22] So well aware of the discussions on DGW etc
[14:22] Hard fork as a solution to a problem community had with rented hashpower (nicehash!!) sounds like the perfect decentralized scenario!
[14:23] hard forks are very dangerous
[14:23] mining parties in difficulty drops are too
[14:23] <@wolfsokta> Agreed, we want to keep them to an absolute minimum.
[14:23] But miners motivation it’s the main vote
[14:24] What would it take to convince you that constantly going from 4 Th/s to 500 Gh/s every week is worse for the long term health of the coin than the risk of a hard fork to fix it?
[14:24] == Tron [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.173.241.144.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[14:24] This hardfork does include the asset layer right? if so why is it being delayed in implementation?
[14:24] <@wolfsokta> Come back Tron!
[14:24] coudl it have been implement through bip9 voting?
[14:24] also hard fork is activated by the community! that's a vote thing!
[14:24] @mrsushi to give people time to upgrade their wallet
[14:25] @under, it would be much hard to keep consensus with a bip9 change
[14:25] <@wolfsokta> We investigated that closely Under.
[14:25] == Tron [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.173.241.144.77] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[14:25] <@wolfsokta> See Tron's post for more details about that.
[14:25] <@spyder_> Hi Tron
[14:25] <@wolfsokta> https://medium.com/@tronblack/ravencoin-dark-gravity-wave-1da0a71657f7
[14:25] Sorry about that. Computer went to sleep.
[14:26] I'm wrong
[14:26] 2 cents. the release deadline of october 31st puts a bit of strain on getting code shipped. (duh). but fixing daa was important to the current health of the coin, and was widely suppported by current mining majority commuity. could it have been implemented in a different manner? yes . if we didnt have deadlines
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[14:27] sushi this fork does not include assets. it's not being delayed though, we're making great progress for an Oct 31 target
[14:28] I don’t see the urgency but my vote doesn’t matter since my hash power is still CPUs
[14:28] <@wolfsokta> We're seeing the community get behind the change as well based on the amount of people jumping back in to mine through this last high difficulty phase.
[14:28] So that will be another hardfork?
[14:28] the fork does include the asset code though set to activate on oct 30th
[14:28] yes
[14:29] <@wolfsokta> Yes, it will based on the upgrade voting through the BIP9 process.
[14:29] I wanted to ask about burn rates from this group: and make a proposal.
[14:29] we're also trying hard to make it the last for awhile
[14:29] Can you clear up the above — there will be this one and another hard fork?
[14:29] <@wolfsokta> Okay, we could discuss that under towards the end of the meeting.
[14:30] If this one has the asset layer is there something different set for October
[14:30] <@wolfsokta> Yes, there will be another hard fork on October 31st once the voting process is successful.
[14:31] <@wolfsokta> The code is in 2.0.4 now and assets are active on testnet
[14:31] Bruce, the assets layer is still being worked on. Assets is active on mainnet. So in Oct 31 voting will start. and if it passes, the chain will fork.
[14:31] this one does NOT include assets for mainnet Bruce -- assets are targeted for Oct 31
[14:31] not***
[14:31] not active****
[14:31] correct me if I'm wrong here, but if everyone upgrades to 2.0.4 for this fork this week, the vote will automatically pass on oct 31st correct? nothing else needs to be done
[14:31] Will if need another download or does this software download cover both forks?
[14:31] <@wolfsokta> Correct Urgo
[14:32] thats how the testnet got activated and this one shows "asset activation status: waiting until 10/30/2018 20:00 (ET)"
[14:32] Will require another upgrade before Oct 31
[14:32] thank you for the clarification wolfsokta
[14:32] <@wolfsokta> It covers both forks, but we might have additional bug fixes in later releases.
[14:32] So users DL one version now and another one around October 30 which activates after that basically?
[14:33] I understand that, but I just wanted to make it clear that if people upgrade to this version for this fork and then don't do anything, they are also voting for the fork on oct 31st
[14:33] Oh okay — one DL?
[14:33] Bruce, Yes.
[14:33] Ty
[14:33] well there is the issue that there maybe some further consensus bugs dealing with the pruneability of asset transactions that needs to be corrected between 2.0.4 and mainnet. so i would imagine that there will be further revisions required to upgrade before now and october 31
[14:33] @under that is correct.
[14:34] I would highly recommend bumping the semver up to 3.0.0 for the final pre 31st release so that the public know to definitely upgrade
[14:34] @under +1
[14:35] out of curiosity, have there been many bugs found with the assets from the version released in july for testnet (2.0.3) until this version? or is it solely a change to DGW?
[14:35] <@wolfsokta> That's not a bad idea under.
[14:35] <@spyder_> @under good idea
[14:35] @urgo. Bugs are being found and fixed daily.
[14:35] Any time the protocol needs to change, there would need to be a hard fork (aka upgrade). It is our hope that we can activate feature forks through the BIP process (as we are doing for assets). Mining pools and exchanges will need to be on the newest software at the point of asset activation - should the mining hash power vote for assets.
[14:35] blondfrogs: gotcha
[14:35] There have been bugs found (and fixed). Testing continues. We appreciate all the bug reports you can give us.
[14:36] <@wolfsokta> Yes! Thank you all for your help in the community.
[14:37] (pull requests with fixes and test coverage would be even better!)
[14:37] asset creation collision is another major issue. current unfair advantage or nodes that fore connect to mining pools will have network topologies that guarantee acceptance. I had discussed the possibility of fee based asset creation selection and i feel that would be a more equal playing ground for all users
[14:38] *of nodes that force
[14:38] <@wolfsokta> What cfox said, we will always welcome development help.
[14:38] So just to make sure everyone know. When assets is ready to go live on oct 31st. Everyone that wants to be on the assets chain without any problems will have to download the new binary.
[14:39] <@wolfsokta> The latest binary.
[14:39] under: already in the works
[14:39] excellent to hear
[14:39] == UserJonPizza [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.24.218.60.237] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[14:39] <@wolfsokta> Okay, we've spent a bunch of time on that topic and I think it was needed. Does anybody have any other suggestions on how to get the word out even more?
[14:40] maybe preface all 2.0.X releases as pre-releases... minimize the number of releases between now and 3.0 etc
[14:41] <@wolfsokta> Bruce_ let's discuss further offline.
[14:41] wolfsokta: which are the remaining two pools that need to be upgraded? I've identified qbtc, upbit, and cryptobridge as high volume exchanges that haven't said they were going to do it yet
[14:41] so people can help reach out to them
[14:41] f2pool is notoriously hard to contact
[14:41] are they on board?
[14:42] <@wolfsokta> We could use help reaching out to QBTC and Graviex
[14:42] I can try to contact CB if you want?
[14:42] <@Chatturga> The remaining pools are Ravenminer and PickAxePro.
[14:42] <@Chatturga> I have spoken with their operators, the update just hasnt been applied yet.
[14:42] ravenminer is one of the largest ones too. If they don't upgrade that will be a problem
[14:42] okay good news
[14:42] (PickAxePro sounds like a Ruby book)
[14:43] I strongly feel like getting the word out on ravencoin.org would be beneficial
[14:44] that site is sorely in need of active contribution
[14:44] Anyone can volunteer to contribute
[14:44] <@wolfsokta> Okay, cfox can you talk about the status of unique assets?
[14:44] sure
[14:45] <@wolfsokta> I'll add website to the end of our topics.
[14:45] code is in review and will be on the development branch shortly
[14:45] would it make sense to have a page on the wiki (or somewhere else) that lists the wallet versions run by pools & exchanges?
[14:45] will be in next release
[14:45] furthermore, many sites have friendly link to the standard installers for each platform, if the site linked to the primary installers for each platform to reduce github newb confusion that would be good as well
[14:46] likely to a testnetv5 although that isn't settled
[14:46] <@wolfsokta> Thanks cfox.
[14:46] <@wolfsokta> Are there any questions about unique assets, and how they work?
[14:47] after the # are there any charachters you cant use?
[14:47] will unique assets be constrained by the asset alphanumeric set?
[14:47] ^
[14:47] <@Chatturga> @Urgo there is a page that tracks and shows if they have updated, but it currently doesnt show the actual version that they are on.
[14:47] a-z A-Z 0-9
[14:47] <@Chatturga> https://raven.wiki/wiki/Exchange_notifications#Pools
[14:47] There are a few. Mostly ones that mess with command-line
[14:47] you'll be able to use rpc to do "issueunique MATRIX ['Neo','Tank','Tank Brother']" and it will create three assets for you (MATRIX#Neo, etc.)
[14:47] @cfox - No space
[14:48] @under the unique tags have an expanded set of characters allowed
[14:48] Chatturga: thank you
[14:48] @UJP yes there are some you can't use -- I'll try to post gimmie a sec..
[14:49] Ok. Thank you much!
[14:49] 36^36 assets possible and 62^62 uniques available per asset?
[14:49] <@spyder_> std::regex UNIQUE_TAG_CHARACTERS("^[[email protected]$%&*()[\\]{}<>_.;?\\\\:]+$");
[14:50] regex UNIQUE_TAG_CHARACTERS("^[[email protected]$%&*()[\\]{}<>_.;?\\\\:]+$")
[14:50] oh thanks Mark
[14:51] <@wolfsokta> Okay, next up. I want to thank everybody for helping test the iOS wallet release.
[14:51] <@wolfsokta> We are working with Apple to get the final approval to post it to the App Store
[14:51] @under max asset length is 30, including unique tag
[14:51] Does the RVN wallet have any other cryptos or just RVN?
[14:52] == BruceFenton [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.67.189.233.170] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[14:52] will the android and ios source be migrated to the ravenproject github?
[14:52] I've been adding beta test users. I've added about 80 new users in the last few days.
[14:52] <@wolfsokta> Just RVN, and we want to focus on adding the asset support to the wallet.
[14:53] == Bruce_ [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.67.189.233.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[14:53] <@wolfsokta> Yes, the code will also be freely available on GitHub for both iOS and Android. Thank you Roshii!
[14:53] Would you consider the iOS wallet to be a more secure place for one's holdings than say, a Mac connected to the internet?
[14:53] will there be a chance of a more user freindly wallet with better graphics like the iOS on PC?
[14:53] the android wallet is getting updated for DGW, correct?
[14:53] <@wolfsokta> That has come up in our discussion Pizza.
[14:54] QT framework is pretty well baked in and is cross platform. if we get some qt gurus possibly
[14:54] Phones are pretty good because the wallet we forked uses the TPM from modern phones.
[14:54] Most important is to write down and safely store your 12 word seed.
[14:54] TPM?
[14:54] <@wolfsokta> A user friendly wallet is one of our main goals.
[14:55] TPM == Trusted Platform Module
[14:55] Ahhh thanks
[14:55] just please no electron apps. they are full of security holes
[14:55] <@spyder_> It is whats makes your stuffs secure
[14:55] not fit for crypto
[14:55] under: depends on who makes it
[14:55] The interface screenshots I've seen look like Bread/Loaf wallet ... I assume that's what was forked from
[14:55] ;)
[14:56] <@wolfsokta> @roshii did you see the question about the Android wallet and DGW?
[14:56] Yes, it was a fork of breadwallet. We like their security.
[14:56] chromium 58 is the last bundled electron engine and has every vuln documented online by google. so unless you patch every vuln.... methinks not
[14:56] Agreed, great choice
[14:57] <@wolfsokta> @Under, what was your proposal?
[14:58] All asset creation Transactions have a mandatory OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY of 1 year(or some agreed upon time interval), and the 500 RVN goes to a multisig devfund, run by a custodial group. We get: 1) an artificial temporary burn, 2) sustainable community and core development funding for the long term, after OSTK/Medici 3) and the reintroduction of RVN supply at a fixed schedule, enabling the removal of the 42k max cap of total As
[14:58] *im wrong on the 42k figure
[14:58] <@wolfsokta> Interesting...
[14:59] <@wolfsokta> Love to hear others thoughts.
[14:59] Update: I posted a message on the CryptoBridge discord and one of their support members @stepollo#6276 said he believes the coin team is already aware of the fork but he would forward the message about the fork over to them right now anyway
[14:59] Ifs 42 million assets
[14:59] yep.
[15:00] I have a different Idea. If the 500 RVN goes to a dev fund its more centralized. The 500 RVN should go back into the unmined coins so miners can stay for longer.
[15:01] *without a hardfork
[15:01] <@wolfsokta> lol
[15:01] that breaks halving schedule, since utxos cant return to an unmined state.
[15:01] @UJP back into coinbase is interesting. would have to think about how that effects distribution schedule, etc.
[15:01] only way to do that would be to dynamicaly grow max supply
[15:02] and i am concerned already about the max safe integer on various platforms at 21 billion
[15:02] js chokes on ravencoin already
[15:02] <@wolfsokta> Other thoughts on Under's proposal? JS isn't a real language. ;)
[15:02] Well Bitcoin has more than 21 bn Sats
[15:02] Is there somebody who wants to volunteer to fix js.
[15:02] hahaha
[15:03] I honestly would hate for the coins to go to a dev fund. It doesn't seem like Ravencoin to me.
[15:03] Yep, but we're 21 billion x 100,000,000 -- Fits fine in a 64-bit integer, but problematic for some languages.
[15:03] <@wolfsokta> Thanks UJP
[15:04] <@wolfsokta> We're past time but I would like to continue if you folks are up for it.
[15:04] Yeah no coins can go anywhere centrality contorted like a dev fund cause that would mean someone has to run it and the code can’t decide that so it’s destined to break
[15:05] currently and long term with out the financial backing of development then improvements and features will be difficult. we are certainly thankful for our current development model. but if a skunkworks project hits a particular baseline of profitability any reasonable company would terminate it
[15:05] Yes let’s contibue for sure
[15:05] the alternative to a dev fund in my mind would be timelocking those funds back to the issuers change address
[15:06] But we can’t have dev built in to the code — it has to be open source like Bitcoin and monero and Litecoin - it’s got drawbacks but way more advantages- it’s the best model
[15:06] Dev funding
[15:06] i highly reccommend not reducing the utility of raven by removing permanently the supply
[15:07] == BW_ [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.138.68.243.202] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[15:07] timelocking those funds accompllishes the same sacrifice
[15:07] @under timelocking is interesting too
[15:07] How exactly does timelocking work?
[15:07] <@wolfsokta> ^
[15:07] I mean you could change the price of assets with the Block reward halfing.
[15:07] == Roshiix [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.105.67.2.212] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[15:08] funds cant be spent from an address until a certain time passes
[15:08] but in a what magical fairy land do people continue to work for free forever. funding development is a real issue... as much as some might philosphically disagree. its a reality
[15:08] You’d still need a centralized party to decide how to distribute the funds
[15:08] even unofficially blockstream supports bitcoin devs
[15:08] on chain is more transparent imho
[15:09] == Tron_ [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.173.241.144.77] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[15:09] @UJP yes there are unlimited strategies. one factor that I think is v important is giving application developers a way to easily budget for projects which leads to flat fees
[15:09] If the project is a success like many of believe it will be, I believe plenty of people will gladly done to a dev fund. I don't think the 500 should be burned.
[15:09] *donate
[15:09] centralized conservatorship, directed by community voting process
[15:10] == Tron [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.173.241.144.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[15:10] <@wolfsokta> Thanks Under, that's an interesting idea that we should continue to discuss in the community. You also mentioned the existing website.
[15:10] It would need to be something where everyone with a QT has a vote
[15:10] think his computer went to sleep again :-/
[15:10] I agree UJP
[15:10] with the website
[15:10] No that’s ico jargon — any development fund tied to code would have to be centralized and would therefor fail
[15:11] ^
[15:11] ^
[15:11] ^
[15:11] dashes model for funding seems to be pretty decentralized
[15:11] community voting etc
[15:11] Once you have a dev fund tied to code then who gets to run it? Who mediates disputes?
[15:11] oh well another discussion
[15:11] Dash has a CEO
[15:12] <@wolfsokta> Yeah, let's keep discussing in the community spaces.
[15:12] Dash does have a good model. It's in my top ten.
[15:12] having the burn go to a dev fund is absolute garbage
[15:12] These dev chats should be more target than broad general discussions — changing the entire nature of the coin and it’s economics is best discussed in the RIPs or other means
[15:13] <@wolfsokta> Yup, let's move on.
[15:13] just becuase existing implementation are garbage doesnt mean that all possible future governance options are garbage
[15:13] <@wolfsokta> To discussing the website scenario mentioned by under.
[15:13] the website needs work. would be best if it could be migrated to github as well.
[15:13] What about this: Anyone can issue a vote once the voting feature has been added, for a cost. The vote would be what the coins could be used for.
[15:14] features for the site that need work are more user friendly links to binaries
[15:14] <@wolfsokta> We investigated how bitcoin has their website in Github to make it easy for contributors to jump in.
[15:14] that means active maintenance of the site instead of its current static nature
[15:15] <@wolfsokta> I really like how it's static html, which makes it super simple to host/make changes.
[15:15] the static nature isn’t due to interface it’s due to no contributors
[15:15] no contribution mechanism has been offered
[15:15] github hosted would allow that
[15:16] We used to run the Bitcoin website from the foundation & the GitHub integration seemed to cause some issues
[15:16] its doesnt necessarily have to be hosted by github but the page source should be on github and contributions could easily be managed and tracked
[15:17] for example when a new release is dropped, the ability for the downlaods section to have platform specific easy links to the general installers is far better for general adoption than pointing users to github releases
[15:18] <@wolfsokta> How do people currently contribute to the existing website?
[15:18] they dont?
[15:18] We did that and it was a complete pain to host and keep working — if someone wants to volunteer to do that work hey can surely make the website better and continually updated — but they could do that in Wordpress also
[15:19] I’d say keep an eye out for volunteers and maybe we can get a group together who can improve the site
[15:19] == digitalvap0r-xmr [[email protected]/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.67.255.25.134] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[15:19] And they can decide best method
[15:20] I host the source for the explorer on github and anyone can spin it up instantly on a basic aws node. changes can be made to interface etc, and allow for multilingual translations which have been offered by some community members
[15:20] there are models that work. just saying it should be looked at
[15:20] i gotta run thank you all for your contributions
[15:20] <@wolfsokta> I feel we should explore the source for the website being hosted in GitHub and discuss in our next dev meeting.
[15:21] <@Chatturga> Thanks Under!
[15:21] == under [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.72.200.168.56] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
[15:21] <@wolfsokta> Thanks, we also need to drop soon.
[15:21] There is no official site so why care. Someone will do better than the next if RVN is worth it anyway. That's already the case.
[15:21] <@wolfsokta> Let's do 10 mins of open Q&A
[15:22] <@wolfsokta> Go...
[15:23] <@Chatturga> Beuller?
[15:24] No questions ... just a comment that the devs and community are great and I'm happy to be a part of it
[15:24] I think everyone moved to discord. I'll throw this out there. How confident is the dev team that things will be ready for oct 31st?
[15:24] <@wolfsokta> Alright! Thanks everybody for joining us today. Let's plan to get back together as a dev group in a couple of weeks.
[15:25] thanks block!
[15:25] <@wolfsokta> Urgo, very confident
[15:25] Please exclude trolls from discord who havent read the whitepaper
[15:25] great :)
[15:25] "things" will be ready..
[15:25] Next time on discord right?
[15:25] woah why discord?
[15:25] some of the suggestions here are horrid
[15:25] this is better less point
[15:25] == blondfrogs [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.185.245.87.219] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
[15:25] Assets are working well on testnet. Plan is to get as much as we can safely test by Sept 30 -- this includes dev contributions. Oct will be heavy testing and making sure it is safe.
[15:26] people
[15:26] <@wolfsokta> Planning on same time, same IRC channel.
[15:26] == BW_ [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.138.68.243.202] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
[15:26] @xmr any in particular?
[15:27] (or is "here" discord?)
[15:27] Cheers - Tron
[15:27] "Cheers - Tron" - Tron
submitted by Chatturga to Ravencoin [link] [comments]

Transcript from Ravencoin Open Developer Meeting - Nov. 16, 2018

Tron at 2:03 PM

Topics: Messaging (next phase) UI 2.2 - Build from develop - still working out a few kinks Mobile - Send/Rcv/View Assets - In progress Raven Dev Kit -Status

RavencoinDev at 2:04 PM

Hey Everybody! Let's get started!Thanks Tron for posting the topics.Tron is going talk about Messaging Plans.Let's start there.

Chatturga at 2:06 PM

It looks like this channel is not connected to the IRC. One moment

RavencoinDev at 2:07 PM

Well, we going to move forward as the tech guys fix the IRC connections.

Tron at 2:07 PM

I wanted to have a doc describing the messaging, but it isn't quite ready.I understand this isn't going to IRC yet, but I'm starting anyway.

RavencoinDev at 2:08 PM

Look for it soon on a Medium near you.

Tron at 2:08 PM

Summary version: Every transaction can have an IPFS hash attached.

Vincent at 2:09 PM

any plans for a 'create IPFS' button?

RavencoinDev at 2:09 PM

Yes

Vincent at 2:09 PM

on asset creatin window also?

RavencoinDev at 2:09 PM

Yes

Vincent at 2:09 PM

sweet

Tron at 2:09 PM

IPFS attachments for transactions that send ownership token or channel token back to the same address will be considered broadcast messages for that token.The client will show the message.Some anti-spam measures will be introduced.If a token is in a new address, then messages will be on by default.The second token in an address, the channel will be available, but muted by default.

RavencoinDev at 2:11 PM

That way I can't spam out 21b tokens and then start sending messages to everybody.

Tron at 2:11 PM

We'd like to have messaging in a reference client on all six platforms.

corby at 2:11 PM

Hi!

Tron at 2:11 PM

Photos will not be shown. Messages will be "linkified"

RavencoinDev at 2:12 PM

and plain text.We'll start with the QT wallet support

Tron at 2:12 PM

Any other client is free to show any IPFS message they choose.The messaging is fully transparent.

Rikki RATTOE at 2:13 PM

ok, so messaging isn't private

Tron at 2:13 PM

Anyone could read the chain and see the messages.

RavencoinDev at 2:13 PM

No, never was planned to be private

MSFTserver-mine more @ MinerMore at 2:13 PM

irc link should be fixed

Tron at 2:13 PM

It is possible to put encrypted content in the IPFS, but then you'd have to distribute the key somehow.

RavencoinDev at 2:13 PM

Thanks MSFT!

Chatturga at 2:13 PM

Negative

Tron at 2:14 PM

Core protocol changes Extend the OP_RVN_ASSET to include for any transfer: RVNT <0xHH><0x12><0x20><32 bytes encoding 256 bit IPFS hash> 0xHH - File type 0x00 - NO data, 0x01 - IPFS hash, 0x02 through 0xFF RESERVED 0x12 - IPFS Spec - Using SHA256 hash 0x20 - IPFS Spec - 0x20 in hex specifying a 32 byte hash. …. (32 byte hash in binary)

corby at 2:14 PM

By it's nature nothing on chain is private per se. Just like with wallets you'd need to use crypto to secure messaging between parties.

Tron at 2:14 PM

Advantages: This messaging protocol has the advantage of not filling up the blockchain. The message information is public so IPFS works as a great distributed store. If the messages are important enough, then the message sender can run nodes that "PIN" the message to keep a more durable version. The message system cannot be spoofed because any change in the message will result in a different hash, and therefore the message location will be different. Only the unique token holder can sign the transaction that adds the message. This prevents spam. Message clients (wallets), can opt-in or opt-out of messages by channel. Meta-message websites can allow viewing of all messages, or all messages for a token. A simple single channel system is supported by the protocol, but a channel could be sub-divided by a client to have as many sub-channels as desired. There are no limits on the number of channels per token, but each channel requires the 5 RVN fee to create the channel.

RavencoinDev at 2:14 PM

So, somebody could create their own client and encrypt the data on the blockchain if they wished.

corby at 2:15 PM

Wow Tron types fast

Rikki RATTOE at 2:15 PM

yeah there was some confusion in the community whether messaging would be private and off chain

Tron at 2:15 PM

Anti-Spam Strategy One difficulty we have is that tokens can be sent to any Ravencoin asset holder unsolicited. This happens on other asset platforms like Counterparty. In many cases, this is good, and is a way for asset issuers to get their token known. It is essentially an airdrop. However, combined with the messaging capabilities of Ravencoin, this can, and likely will become a spam strategy. Someone who wants to send messages (probably scams) to Ravencoin asset holders, which they know are crypto-savvy people, will create a token with billions of units, send it to every address, and then message with the talking stick for that token. Unless we preemptively address this problem, Ravencoin messaging will become a useless spam channel. Anyone can stop the messages for an asset by burning the asset, or by turning off the channel. A simple solution is to automatically mute the channel (by default) for the 2nd asset sent to an address. The reason this works is because the assets that you acquire through your actions will be to a newly generated address. The normal workflow would be to purchase an asset on an exchange, or through a ICO/STO sale. For an exchange, you'll provide a withdrawal address, and best practice says you request a new address from the client with File->'Receiving addresses…'->New. To provide an address to the ICO/STO issuer, you would do the same. It is only the case where someone is sending assets unsolicited to you where an address would be re-used for asset tokens. This is not 100% the case, and there may be rare edge-cases, but would allow us to set the channels to listen or silent by default. Assets sent to addresses that were already 'on-chain' can be quarantined. The user can burn them or take them out of quarantine.

RavencoinDev at 2:18 PM

Okay, let me know when/if you guys read through all that. 📷📷2

corby at 2:18 PM

To be clear this is a client-side issue -- anyone will be able to send anything (including messages) to any address on chain..

RavencoinDev at 2:18 PM

It'll be in the Medium post later.

Tron at 2:19 PM

@corby The reference client will only show messages signed by the issuer or designated channels.Who is ready for another wall of text? 📷

corby at 2:19 PM

I hear that's the plan 📷 just pointing out that it is on the client in these cases..

Tron at 2:20 PM

Yes, any client can show anything gleaned from the chain.Goal: A simple message format without photos. URL links are allowed and most clients will automatically "linkify" the message for valid URLs. For display, message file must be a valid json file. { "subject":"This is the optional subject", "message": "This is required.", "expires": 1578034800 } Only "message" is required {"message":"Hello world"}

bhorn at 2:21 PM

expires?

Vincent at 2:21 PM

discount coupon?

Tron at 2:21 PM

If you have a message that worthless (say after a vote), just don't show the message.

bhorn at 2:21 PM

i see - more client side operation

corby at 2:21 PM

/expires

Tron at 2:22 PM

Yep. And the expiration could be used by IPFS pinners to stop worrying about the message. Optional

RavencoinDev at 2:22 PM

If the client sees a message that is expired it just won't display it.

Vincent at 2:23 PM

will that me messaged otherwise may cause confusion?"expired'

RavencoinDev at 2:23 PM

YesWe'll do our best to make it intuitive.

Tron at 2:24 PM

Client handling of messages Pop-up messages or notifications when running live. Show messages for any assets sent to a new address - by default Mute messages for assets sent to an address that was already on-network. Have a setting to not show messages older than X IPFSHash (or 8 bytes of it) =

Rikki RATTOE at 2:25 PM

will there be a file size limit for IPFS creation in the wallet?

RavencoinDev at 2:25 PM

We'll also provide updated documentation.

Tron at 2:26 PM

Excellent question Rikki. Here are some guidelinesGuidelines: Clients are free to show or not show poorly formed messages. Reference clients will limit message display to properly formed messages. If subject is missing, the first line of the message will be used (up to 80 chars). Standard JSON encoding for newlines, tabs, etc. https://www.freeformatter.com/json-escape.html Expiration is optional, but desired. Will stop showing the message after X date, where X is specified as Unix Epoch. Good for invites, voting requests, and other time sensitive messages that have no value after a specific date. By default clients will not show a message after X blocks (default 1 year) Amount of subject shown will be client dependent - Reference client may cut off at 80 chars. Messages longer than 15,000 (about 8 pages) will not be pinned to IPFS by some scanners. Messages longer than 15,000 characters may be rejected altogether by the client. Images will not be shown in reference clients. Other clients may show any IPFS content at their discretion. IPFSHash is only a "published" message if the Admin/Owner or Channel token is sent from/to the same address. This allows for standard transfers with metadata that don't "publish".Free Online JSON Escape / Unescape Tool - FreeFormatter.comA free online tool to escape or unescape JSON strings

RavencoinDev at 2:26 PM

We're hoping to add preferences that will allow the user to customize their messaging experience.

Tron at 2:27 PM

Also, happy to receive feedback from everyone.

corby at 2:27 PM

In theory though if you maintain your own IPFS nodes you should be able to reference files of whatever size right?

Steelers at 2:27 PM

How about a simple Stop light approach - Green (ball) New Message, Yellow (Ball) Expiring Messages, Red (Ball) Expired Messages

RavencoinDev at 2:27 PM

Yes please! That's the point of sharing it here

Chatturga at 2:27 PM

Fixt

push | ravenland.org at 2:28 PM

Thanks @Tron can you provide any details of the coming 'tooling' at the end of november, and what that might enable (apologies as I am a bit late to meeting if this has been asked already)

VeronicaBOT at 2:28 PM

sup guys

Tron at 2:28 PM

Sure, that's coming.

RavencoinDev at 2:28 PM

That's the Raven WebDev Kit topic coming up in a few mins.

push | ravenland.org at 2:29 PM

oki 📷 cheers

RavencoinDev at 2:29 PM

Questions on messaging?

Jeroz at 2:30 PM

Not sure if I missed it, but how fast could you send multiple messages in succession?

BruceFenton at 2:30 PM

Some kind of sweep feature or block feature for both tokens and messages could be useful Certain messages will be illegal to possess in certain jurisdictions If someone sends a picture of Tiennneman tank man in China or a message calling for the overthrow of a ruler it could be illegal for someone to have There’s no way for that jurisdiction to censor the chain So some users might want the option to purge messages or not receive them client side / on the wallet

Tron at 2:30 PM

Messages are a transaction.

RavencoinDev at 2:30 PM

So it'll cost you to spam messages.They can only send a hash to that picture and the client won't display anything not JSON

corby at 2:31 PM

purge/block is the age old email spam

Tron at 2:31 PM

The Reference client - other clients / web sites, etc can show anything they wish.

RavencoinDev at 2:31 PM

You can also burn a token if you never want to receive messages from that token owner.

UserJonPizza|MinePool.com|Mom at 2:32 PM

Can't they just resend the token?

Tron at 2:33 PM

Yes, but it would default to mute.📷2

RavencoinDev at 2:33 PM

meaning it would show up in a spam foldetab

bhorn at 2:33 PM

is muting available for the initial asset as well?

RavencoinDev at 2:33 PM

Something easy to ignore if muted.

Tron at 2:33 PM

@bhorn Yes

BruceFenton at 2:33 PM

Can users nite some assets and not others?

Tron at 2:33 PM

@bhorn It just isn't the default.

BruceFenton at 2:33 PM

Mute

RavencoinDev at 2:33 PM

YesYou can mute per token.

BruceFenton at 2:34 PM

Great

Tron at 2:34 PM

And per token per channel.

Jeroz at 2:34 PM

channels are the subtokens?

BruceFenton at 2:34 PM

What’s per token per channel mean ?

Tron at 2:34 PM

The issuer sends to the "Primary" channel.Token owner can create channels like "Alert", "Emergency", etc.These "talking sticks" are similar to unique assets.📷1ASSET~Channel

RavencoinDev at 2:37 PM

Okay, we have a few more topics to cover today.Tron will post more details on Medium and we can continue discussions there.

Jeroz at 2:38 PM

Ah, I missed channel creation bit for each token with the 5 RVN / channel cost. It makes more sense to me now.

RavencoinDev at 2:38 PM

The developers are working towards posting a new version 2.2 that has the updated UI shown on twitter.

Vincent at 2:39 PM

twit link?

RavencoinDev at 2:39 PM

The consuming of large birds (not ravens) might slow the release a bit.So likely the week after Thanksgiving.

[Dev] Blondfrogs at 2:39 PM

The new UI will contain: - New menu layout - New icons - Dark mode - Added RVN colors

Dan1666 at 2:39 PM

+1 Dark mode

RavencoinDev at 2:39 PM

DARK MODE!

Dan1666 at 2:40 PM

so pleased about that

RavencoinDev at 2:40 PM

I can honestly say it'll be the nicest crypto wallet out there.

[Dev] Blondfrogs at 2:40 PM

A little sneak peak, but this is not the final project📷📷6📷3

!S1LVA | MINEPOOL at 2:40 PM

Outstanding

Dan1666 at 2:41 PM

reminds me of Sub7 ui for those that might remember

UserJonPizza|MinePool.com|Mom at 2:41 PM

Can we have an asset count at the top?

[Dev] Blondfrogs at 2:41 PM

Icons will be changing

Vincent at 2:41 PM

does the 'transfer assets' have a this for that component?

Tron at 2:41 PM

Build from develop to see the sneak preview in action.There may be small glitches depending on OS. These are being worked on.

Rikki RATTOE at 2:41 PM

No plans for the mobile wallet to show an IPFS image I'm assuming? Would be a nice feature if say a retail store could send a QR coupon code to their token holders and they could scan the coupon using their wallet in store

[Dev] Blondfrogs at 2:42 PM

@Vincent That will probably be a different section added later📷1

RavencoinDev at 2:42 PM

Yes, Rikki we do want to support messaging.Looking into how that would work with Apple and Google push.

push | ravenland.org at 2:42 PM

sub7📷1hahaoldschoolit so is similar aswell

[Master] Roshii at 2:43 PM

Messages are transactions no need for any push

Tron at 2:43 PM

@Rikki RATTOE There's a danger in showing graphics where anyone can post anything without accountability for their actions. A client that only shows tokens for a specific asset could do this📷1

RavencoinDev at 2:43 PM

True, unless you want to see the messages even if you haven't opened your wallet in a week.

Rikki RATTOE at 2:44 PM

the only thing I was thinking was if you simply linked the image, somebody could just copy the link and text it off to everyone and the coupon isn't all that exclusive

UserJonPizza|MinePool.com|Mom at 2:44 PM

Maybe a mobile link-up for a easy way to see messages by just importing pubkey(edited)

RavencoinDev at 2:45 PM

Speaking of mobileWe are also getting close to a release of mobile that includes the ability to show assets held, and transfer them.Roshii has been hard at work.📷6📷1

Vincent at 2:46 PM

can be hidden also?

RavencoinDev at 2:47 PM

We're still finalizing the UI design but that is on the list of todos📷1

Under at 2:47 PM

Could we do zerofee mempool messaging that basically gets destroyed after it expires out of the mempool for real-time stealth mode messaging

corby at 2:48 PM

That's interesting!

RavencoinDev at 2:49 PM

There are other solutions available for stealth messaging, that's not what the devs had intended to build. It does sound cool though @Under

Under at 2:50 PM

📷 we’ll keep up the good work. Looking forward to the db upgrades. Will test this weekend

RavencoinDev at 2:50 PM

Thanks!That leaves us with 10 minutes for the Dev Kit!Corby has been working on expanding some of the awesome work that @Under has been doing.

corby at 2:52 PM

Yes -- all of the -addressindex rpc calls are being updated to work with assets

RavencoinDev at 2:52 PM

Hopefully we'll be able to post the source soon once the initial use cases are all working.

corby at 2:52 PM

so assets are being tied into transaction history, utxos, etc

RavencoinDev at 2:52 PM

The devs want to provide a set of API's that make it easy for web developers to build solutions on top of Ravencoin.VinX is investigating the possibility of using Ravencoin to power their solution.

corby at 2:53 PM

will be exposed via insight-api which we've forked from @Under

[Master] Roshii at 2:53 PM

Something worth bringing up is that you will be able to get specific asset daba from full nodes with specific message protocols.

corby at 2:54 PM

also working on js lib for client side construction of asset transactions

Tron at 2:55 PM

Dev Kit will be an ongoing project so others can contribute and extend the APIs and capabilities of the 2nd layer.📷3📷3

RavencoinDev at 2:55 PM

Will be posted soon to the RavenProject GitHub.

corby at 2:55 PM

separate thing but yes Roshii that is worth mentioning -- network layer for getting asset data

RavencoinDev at 2:55 PM

Again want to give thanks to @Under for getting a great start on the project

push | ravenland.org at 2:56 PM

Yes looking forward to seeing more on the extensive api and capabilities, is there a wiki on this anywhere tron?(as to prevent other people replicating eachothers work?)

RavencoinDev at 2:56 PM

The wiki will be in the project on GitHub

push | ravenland.org at 2:56 PM

im guessing when the kit is released, something will appear, okok cool

RavencoinDevat 2:57 PM

Any questions about the Web DevKit?

push | ravenland.orgToday at 2:57 PM

well, what kind of support will it give us, that would be nice, is this written anywhereI'm still relatively new to blockchain<2 yearsso need some hand holding i suppose 📷

bhorn at 2:58 PM

right, what are initial use cases of the devkit?

push | ravenland.org at 2:58 PM

i mean im guessing metamask like capabilitysome kind of smart contract, some automation capabilitiesrpc scriptsstuff like thiseven if proof of concept or examplei guess im wondering if my hopes are realistic 📷

RavencoinDev at 2:59 PM

You can see the awesome work that @Under has already don that we are building on top of.

push | ravenland.org at 2:59 PM

yes @Under is truly a herooki, cool

RavencoinDev at 2:59 PM

https://ravencoin.network/Ravencoin Block ExplorerRavencoin Insight. View detailed information on all ravencoin transactions and blocks.

push | ravenland.org at 2:59 PM

ok, sweet, that is very encouragingthanks @Under for making that code public

corby at 3:00 PM

It will hopefully allow you to write all sorts of clients -- depending on complexity of use case you might just have js lib (wallet functions, ability to post txs to gateway) or a server side project (asset explorer or exchange)..(edited)

Tron at 3:00 PM

Yeah, thanks @Under .

RavencoinDev at 3:00 PM

What's your GitHub URL @Under ?

push | ravenland.org at 3:00 PM

https://github.com/underdarkskies/ i believeGitHub· GitHubunderdarkskies has 31 repositories available. Follow their code on GitHub.📷

RavencoinDev at 3:00 PM

Yup!

push | ravenland.org at 3:00 PM

he is truly a hero(edited)

RavencoinDev at 3:00 PM

LOL

push | ravenland.org at 3:00 PM

damn o'sgo missing everywhere

RavencoinDev at 3:01 PM

teh o's are hard... Just ask @Chatturga

push | ravenland.org at 3:01 PM

📷

Chatturga at 3:01 PM

O's arent the problem...

push | ravenland.org at 3:01 PM

📷📷

RavencoinDev at 3:02 PM

Alright we're at time and the devs are super busy. Thanks everybody for joining us.

push | ravenland.org at 3:02 PM

thanks guys

RavencoinDev at 3:02 PM

Thank you all for supporting the Raven community.📷6

corby at 3:02 PM

thanks all!

push | ravenland.org at 3:02 PM

keep up the awesome work, whilst bitcoin sv and bitcoin abc fight, another bitcoin fork raven, raven thru the night📷5

Vincent at 3:02 PM

piece!!

RavencoinDev at 3:03 PM

We're amazingly blessed to have you on this ride with us.📷5📷9📷5

Dan1666 at 3:03 PM

gg

BruceFenton at 3:03 PM

📷📷12📷4

UserJonPizza|MinePool.com|Mom at 3:55 PM

Good meeting! Excited for the new QT!!
submitted by Chatturga to u/Chatturga [link] [comments]

"There is no possibility of not 'forking.' In fact a chain fork (hashpower referendum) happens at every block. Merely because the referendum has voted in the incumbent ruleset a great many times in a row does not imply a referendum (chain fork) is not happening every block." ~ u/ForkiusMaximus

https://np.reddit.com/btc/comments/68ju8a/utempatroy_uadam3us_unullc_ulukejr_dont_even/dgz7u1r
https://np.reddit.com/btc/comments/41lpisegwit_economics/cz3cazb/
Bitcoin, as a creature of the market, should be hard forking on a regular basis, because a hard fork is the only time the market gets an opportunity to express its will in anything other than a binary YES/NO fashion. That is, without a hard fork, the market only can push the price up or down, but with a hard fork it can actually select Option A over Option B. It can even assign a relative weighting to those options, especially if coins in the two sides of the fork are allowed to be bought and sold in advance by proxy through futures trading on exchanges (e.g., Bitfinex would let you buy futures in CoreCoins and/or ClassicCoins so that the matter could be resolved before the fork even happens, with the legendary accuracy of a prediction market).
Anything controversial, on which many reasonable people are in disagreement, is the perfect time for a hard fork. The idea that controversial hard forks are to be avoided is not only exactly backwards, to even entertain the idea shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how Bitcoin works and calls into question everything else one might say on the subject.
Hard forks are the market speaking. Soft forks on any issues where there is controversy are an attempt to smother the market in its sleep. Core's approach is fundamentally anti-market and against the very open-source ethos Bitcoin was founded on.
EDIT: Looks like Ben Davenport is on the same page as far as "fork arbitrage."
~ u/ForkiusMaximus
https://np.reddit.com/btc/comments/61n9y9/bruce_fenton_core_supporters_if_you_dont_like_it/dffz6g1/
People saying Bitcoin isn't antifragile is a contrarian indicator. Look at how different things are now. People are actually debating the dynamics of a hard fork, fork trading, fork futures, and Core is on the run with them being the ones having to discuss a PoW change. Besides this happening pretty slowly, what more could you ask for? Wasn't this in the cards all along?
Bitcoin will be the first cryptocurrency to dash the illusion of incorruptible leaders and blossom to a truly pluralistic development environment where no one dev or group of devs or foundation has de facto final say over changes. No major altcoin has overcome this yet, as all have their own trusty Gavin-like person or Bitcoin Wizards-like groups that is so far navigating everything well. The transition to fully realized Market Governance is a huge step, fraught with peril, but a necessary prerequisite for reaching trillion-dollar market caps.
~ u/ForkiusMaximus
https://np.reddit.com/btc/comments/4mbmrt/a_sanity_check_appeal_to_greg_co/d3u88jq/
In fairness, Greg and the others have raised one halfway decent point among all the weaseling around: what Classic did was probably the wrong way to get around Core.
Classic framed it as a miner vote, which Greg is calling a coup against "the users." Of course he's trying to bullshit that Core = the community, but there is still a grain of truth left after the BS is washed away. The fact is, Bitcoin doesn't work by miner vote; it works - ultimately - by market vote. The miners should serve as a proxy for that, but due to mining becoming disconnected with nodes (pooled mining) there are indeed like 10 guys who sort of have some possible control over Bitcoin (yes people can just switch pools, but is this the ideal way?).
The rightful remedy to this situation is to put competing forks up to a direct market test: commence fork futures trading on the major Bitcoin exchanges. Investors buy and sell 1MB-BTC futures and 2MB-BTC futures until a clear winner emerges. The market speaks. (And in the unlilely event that no clear winner emerges, the market has expressed its value for a persistent split.) In all cases, hodler purchasing power is unaffected.
Then neither Classic nor any other such fork can be called any kind of coup against the users, by any stretch. The 75% hashpower threshold should be removed. And I don't mean it should be increased to 95%. The blocksize cap in Classic should just be 2MB straight up as a flag day (increase to 2MB at this block...or gradual stepwise increase if prefered).
We have had endless debate because both alternatives were flawed: we should have no miner vote as proxy for a market vote; just a direct market vote. (In the event that the market chooses a persistent split, the minority chain would have to make some hashing and signing tweaks to prevent interference, of course.)
~ u/ForkiusMaximus
submitted by ydtm to btc [link] [comments]

The Truth Behind Satoshi (with citations)

Long ago, an unverified pastebin irc chat log foretold the events that have been set in motion. The Fool will leak that the Great Exchange would fall, and all of Japan's creditors and all their investigators couldn't put Mt.Gox back together again.
In bitcoin's darkest hour, the Chosen One will unwillingly reveal himself through a semi-credible proxy. He was surprised, but not unprepared. He knew this day would come. For in those years of reclusion he was Training in earnest.
The FUDster Trolls will march the price downwards like lemmings, but the Forgotten Whales will not betray their markup so easily after a week's worth of accumulation. Not this time.
Verily, the squire Bruce Fenton will provide Satoshi with a chartered flight so that he may confront Karpeles and do battle.
Just when Karpeles flaps towards the boundary of the screen of financial obligation and all hope seems lost, Charles Lee will rocket to 'toshi's aid - Bitcoin and Litecoin - brothers reunited indeed! The moon will seem a bittersweet memory as they struggle against the overwhelming army of FUDsters and misinformed Baby Boomers. Luckily, the Twins - the other brothers - will forge an allegiance with Branson the Virgin, buying tickets with bitcoin to reach the moon manually.
The prophecy must be fulfilled!
I swear it on me mom that this would make a great tv show
submitted by ActualAdviceBTC to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

#416 - Bruce Fenton, plandemic and changing times Man Claims He Was Part Of The CIA's Secret Time Travel ... Der Neue Wiesentbote - YouTube materialfluss - Fachmedium der Intralogistik - YouTube

Bitcoin Wiki; Books on Bitcoin; How the Bitcoin Protocol Actually Works; A Peak Under Bitcoin’s Hood; Video Resources. The Future of Money with Neha Narula; Starting with $1,000 with Crypto Bobby; The Bitcoin Doc; Bitcoinexplainers.com Video Playlist; Breaking Bitcoin ; Scaling Bitcoin Workshops; Blockchain 201 Classes. Programming Smart Contracts on Ethereum; Blockchain Books; Blockchain ... Re: I'm Bruce Fenton, Bitcoin Loving Techo-Econ Geek AMA! Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:08 pm I was super critical of Matonis-era TBF because I felt like his cadre dropped the ball, almost entirely, and then treated the community like we were idiots. Bruce Fenton fungiert als Berater im Raven-Projekt. Er verfügt über 20 Jahre Erfahrung im Finanzsektor, von denen die letzten drei im Kryptowährungssegment liegen. Das Gesamtinvestitionspaket, mit dem Bruce zusammengearbeitet hat, übersteigt 5 Milliarden US-Dollar. Fenton fungiert als Angel-Investor in SpeechWorks und ShapeShift, einem Berater in Factom, BTCS und anderen. Er ist auch ... Bruce Fenton became involved with Bitcoin in 2012 and has been involved full time in Bitcoin and the blockchain industry since 2013. He currently holds a number of different roles including: Founder/ President of Atlantic Financial / Atlantic Financial Blockchain Labs; Founder, CEO, Chainstone Labs; Board Member and former Executive Director of the Bitcoin Foundation; Founder of the Bitcoin ... Founder of the Satoshi Roundtable a ‘Blockchain Economic Advisor’

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#416 - Bruce Fenton, plandemic and changing times

Impressum / Anbieterkennzeichnung Betreiber des Kanals ist Der Neue Wiesentbote c/o faktor i medienservice www.faktori.de Verantwortlich für diesen Kanal: Al... Bruce Fenton joins us to chat about the current state of quarantine. We chat about his transition from fear to skepticism of the main stream narrative. We also talk about human origins, polluted ... materialfluss, das Fachmedium der Intralogistik. Bruce Fenton joins us to chat about the current state of quarantine. We chat about his transition from fear to skepticism of the main stream narrative. We also talk about human origins, polluted ... Do you believe in time travel? In the last of our conspiracy theory week, we speak to Andrew Basiago who claims he participated in a CIA time travel program ...

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