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Update 02. May Today we will able to communicate and discuss the current accusations against BTC 24 with the prosecution in Berlin. We have offered the prosecution full collaboration. The same is true for the prosecution in Gorzow. There we are also expecting progress in the near future. Once all our accounts are fully accessible and available, we will immediately start to continue all business activities.
So not only will we be able to get access to our money once again, the exchange will also be back online. Thoughts? Will anybody here actually be using it once it's back online, or just withdrawing your money and moving elsewhere?
For everyone worrying about Bitcoin-24, please read this.
First of all, if you are panicking: calm down. Because I don't think Simon is a scammer especially because he is easy to track down. And I doubt that he will decide to skip the Eurozone jurisdiction with a wallet full of stolen BTCs. Did anyone here ever gotten their PayPal account frozen? It's a pain in the ass and takes a while to sort out. For whatever reason (Simon says per request of of a German government agency) the Polish Bank locked their account. Therefore your fiat money is safe, because even Simon can't get to it until this issue is resolved. I suspect that banks don't really like having e-currency exchanges as customers just due to the tremendous transaction volume and risk of fraud or money laundering, hence they probably already were looking for a reason to cut him loose and when a flimsy official looking document from some German law enforcement agency came they jumped at the opportunity and locked his account which isn't exactly stellar but could be much worse. So while your fiat money is not immediately available, it should be safe. I think the matter could be sorted out within a few weeks, why? Well obviously the alleged charges that lead to the suspension of the PL account weren't enough to warrant the immediate seizure of the Germany bank account (pretty sure you need an actual warrant for that rather then just a piece of paper with a official looking letterhead). Also if Simon were facing serious charges he'd probably be in custody by now and not posting on reddit. Now as for the BTC: I think there are a bunch of links floating around to BTC24's fat wallets. They should also hold enough BTC to refund everyone. (Sry dont have the links handy) Now as for the trading engine failing. As far as we know it was buggy for a while due to Simons lack of expertise in the field of database transactions :) BUT (again all guesses/my interpretation of the situation) the actual amounts lost to this glich were so small enough that Simon covered them with personal funds (I hear he runs ASIC miners?) also larger amounts would probably be noticeable when doing his regular accounting. As some of you know the same bug became much more apparent as the trading engine started choking under the increased load (maybe people looking for new places to trade? more bots hitting the API?). The shoutbox started filling up with people who saw their order fulfilled not once, or twice but 4 times (Pay for 1 BTC -> get 4). Further proof: Simon started asking for help on StackOverflow (a QA page for programmers). While that in it self is not very confidence inspiring (btw seriously Simon, get a second Nickname for your SO profile :D) it is not as bad as it sounds. Why? When this bug escalated to a degree where it was obvious that the trading engine started choking and malfunctioning and therefore became exploitable there was one safeguard in place that prevented disaster: the hot wallet was empty (as others that were there can confirm). While getting free BTC is exciting in the moment it was NOT possible to withdraw those to a wallet of your own. Shortly after the exchange was shut down. What happens now? (on a technical level) A database rollback is basically guaranteed to happen, which will restore your legitimate balance pre trading engine craziness. Simon will have to fix the faulty code (Simon if you happen to read this I offered my help by email) He will have to sort the legal problems out, which will be a huge pain in the ass as the German fiscal authorities (aka local IRS) have a reaaaaaaaally hard time understanding internet based businesses much less magic internet coins lol. This was supposed to be a reply but I think this warrants a separate post but the point I was going to make (albeit within a lot less words) is: Give him a break and lay off with the lawsuit (and as this is the internet probably also death) threats He is fairly young (24 I think), a real person residing in Germany who ran the exchange with minimum fees. Yes he fucked up and got fucked. But the last thing this guy needs right now is people threatening to send him into personal bancrupcy by burring him in civil suits. Edit: I didn't mean to imply that just because he is young he should get a free pass but rather that he has a huge incentive to fix this unless he wants to spend the rest of his life hiding from debt collectors. I know this one will be controversial but I feel that I have to bring this up: Such an outlook can drag you down, like down down and whether you care for him as a human being or not if he, god forbid, looses hope he wouldn't be the first to collapse under pressure and make bad decisions which will benefit no one. Sorry to pull this card but we (the hackestartup community) have seen it way to often recently. FYI I also have about 1.5k EUR deposited with BTC24 but I am confident Simon will be able to sort this out. Pretty sure he will be able to alleviate the problems with BTC24 in a timely fashion (unless course you insist that he should rather await trial while locked up) tl;dr don't panic, stop harassing Simon (including but not limited to threads of any kind (esp. legal , life), email spam etc) so he can focus on bringing back BTC24 FYI, not affiliated with BTC24 in any way except that I still have 1.5k EUR there. I am just someone who is fed up with this fucking panicking and because Simon is busy with more important stuff (I hope) I just want to help worried users understand the situation. My credentials (if that helps): I am a Web Developer (Python, PHP, CoffeeScript) and a few years ago I was working on something in the same field and experienced and/or witnessed the same problems Simon is facing now. TL;DRTL;DR don't panic, we've had enough of that recently also (constructive) criticism welcome and appreciated UPDATE FROM SIMON: Little Update! As some of you know, I had some problems with the German bank accounts in the past. I have solved the problem with moving to Poland and we had also never problems with them. Why does this all happen? The "Deutsche Bank" in Germany had some phishing attacks / hacker and some funds where send to my bank account. This attacks does not stop on the "Deutsche Bank", because it seems, that it is a very stupid bank! So they closed my bank accounts in Germany and I got an invite from the German police, to tell them, what I am doing. After that I had no problems but my Bank accounts where closed. (this all happen in the start time of bitcoin-24) In my opinion the problems where fixed. I moved to poland and make all business on the BZWBK. The Germans are now fighting against me and the "Deutsche Bank" has still the same problems, that people are sending me money from stolen bank accounts! THATS NOT MY PROBLEM! The only thing I can do now is to not accept payments from the "Deutsche Bank". The Germans think now, that I am trying to get money with this methode. So they look now, where I have money and try to close all bank accounts. Why in Poland? The Germans think, I am a criminal guy and they will stop the crime. They asked the poland for help and they closed my bank account in poland. I have 7 days to make something against this, otherwise my bank account will be closed for the next 3 month! I am very sure, that we can get back the bank account in the next time. I will not give you a promise, but it is possible, that I will get back the bank account in the next week.
The Bundesanzeiger published a report about Bitcoin24 which says Simon Hausdorf's banking account was frozen due to suspicion of fraudulent behavior. On 17th April 2013 the account balance was 2,448,133.72 EUR. They say every victim has to file a civil claim. It's not sufficient "to register for a cashout".
To read the Bundesanzeiger post in German, go here and search ("Suchbegriff") for "Bitcoin", then choose "Vorläufige Sicherungsmaßnahmen 241 Js 380/13" from 25.04.2013.
Heise Online writes: "In the case of the Bitcoin24 bitcoin exchange which is closed at the moment, the Public Prosecution Office of Berlin has seized a bank account of exchange operator Simon Hausdorf. According to a bulletin in the juridical part of the Federal Gazette, Hausdorf is being investigated against for alleged fraud; maybe-victims can assert their claims under civil law. Hausdorf is claimed to have attempted to withdraw funds that exchange users had transferred in for trading in order to use them for his own purposes. Two weeks ago, Bitcoin24 has suspended all operations. At first, users were told that Poland-based accounts belonging to the company had been frozen by local investigators. An order for account seizure (translated from Polish), a search warrant from Berlin authorities for the operator's home and office, a search record and an objection from Bitcoin24's legal counsel were posted on the exchange website. It seems that German authorities have raised investigations in Poland by requesting administrative assistance. As SZ reported last week, a charge with goods and service fraud has been filed with the State Criminal Investigation Agency of Berlin; a bank from Germany is said to have filed a charge as well. Deposits of noticeably high amounts as well as ATM withdrawals of abnormally high amounts raised suspicions at the Bremen-based bank where the account is held. On monday, a letter from Bitcoin24's attorneys was published where they stated that they were in contact with investigation authorities and bailing out all of their options. They emphasized that frozen funds were safe. All in all, the lawyers assume that exchange operations will resume eventually but they don't know when that would happen. In a board posting that is believed to be authentic, the operator himself described the charges as "ridiculous" and affirmed that his withdrawals weren't funds belonging to his customers but rather profit from his business. He also said that he had explained to his bank in detail how he would be using his accounts. A few affected users have set up a help forum. One of the site founders announced that he had filed a charge against Bitcoin24, too. A list of 129 further victims whose claims sum up to € 1 000 000 is said to be sent to the Prosecution Office as well. It seems that only a court will be able to determine whether this is a case of fraudulent business conduct or just simple dilettantism of the operator (as some assume)." Source: http://www.heise.de/newstickemeldung/Bitcoin24-Staatsanwaelte-ermitteln-wegen-Betrug-1850884.html  https://bitcoin-24.com/  https://www.bundesanzeiger.de  http://www.heise.de/newstickemeldung/Bitcoin-Boersen-Bitfloor-und-Bitcoin24-geschlossen-1844920.html  http://www.sueddeutsche.de/digital/internettauschboerse-bitcoin-anbieter-soll-kunden-um-millionen-geprellt-haben-1.1652723  https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com2329063/BTC24.pdf  http://board.btc24-help.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18&sid=362c9d47cfb1847822bf74bfb22c10c2  http://board.btc24-help.com/  http://btc24-help.com/de/deutsch-anzeige-ist-raus/topic=189093.msg1981295#msg1981295
I don't know if I got scammed or not but this is the story: I have been looking for a person to meet up with and purchase bitcoins from. I went on Localbitcoins.com and I came across a seller of which I can't seem to find in my location now, known as EmpireBtc24. I did the trade and I sent it through western union. It's been 30 minutes after my amount was sent to them and I haven't gotten a response back. Is this normal?
As per the thread, I'm trying to use Transferwise to get my money into EUR with the minimum of exchange overhead. But I've come across a problem - they're appending my name to the payment reference. I presume this is going to cause problems on bitstamp/btc24's end if the strings don't match exactly. a) Does it? b) Is there a way to stop it from happening? Ta.
This goes out to everyone, who has funds at Bitcoin-24!
Last day’s events as well as Simon Hausdorf’s statements on reddit let us suppose, that the Bitcoin-24 affairs will take some time until they are solved. Because of that we – victims, who have funds at Bitcoin-24 – decided, to become active and to build up the site www.btc24-help.com. We do not want to sit around and wait. We want our money back, and that as soon as possible! For this purpose we want to collect the victim’s E-Mail-addresses, for sending them combined with a cover letter to the “Deutsche Bank” and the “BZWBK” in Poland. Perhaps this is a way to accelerate things. Furthermore we are greatful for any help you can give us. Jurists, SEO-specialists, writers, translators (english, polish) etc. are very welcome to contact us! Everyone else, who can give current affair’s informations, is welcome as well to write any comments, post links or tips. Nobody knows, what is really going on at Bitcoin-24. One site believes, that everything is going to be allright, others are pessimistic and think, that their money is already lost. Just one thing is clear: At this moment a huge lawsuit is going on, that seems to take long and of which nobody – Simon concluded – knows, how it will turn out. We want to be prepared and consider the possibility of a class action lawsuit against Bitcoin-24. If we do not see any progresses, are not informed satisfactorily or everything ist just going on too long and we can not receive our funds in the foreseeable future, we will make use of our rights. Let us do something! We are looking forward to your support! Please visit us on www.btc24-help.com and share this link. An alle, die ihre Funds bei der Börse Bitcoin-24 liegen haben! Die Ereignisse der letzten Tagen sowie Simon Hausdorfs Statements auf reddit lassen vermuten, dass sich die ganze Bitcoin-24 Angelegenheit noch einige Zeit hinauszögern wird. Daher haben wir – selbst Betroffene, die Funds bei Bitcoin-24 liegen haben – entschieden, aktiv zu werden und die Seite www.btc24-help.com gemacht. Wir möchten nicht einfach herumsitzen und warten. Wir wollen unser Geld zurück und das möglichst schnell! Zu diesem Zweck möchten wir die E-Mail-Adressen der Betroffenen sammeln und diese Liste gemeinsam mit einem Anschreiben an die Deutsche Bank und die BZWBK in Polen senden. Vielleicht können wir damit die Dinge etwas beschleunigen. Darüber hinaus sind wir für jede Hilfe dankbar. Juristen, SEO-Fachleute, Texter, Übersetzer (englisch, polnisch) etc. sind herzlich aufgerufen, sich bei uns zu melden! Aber auch alle anderen, die aktuelle Informationen zu den Ereignissen zusammentragen können, dürfen gerne ihre Kommentare, Links und Tipps hier hinterlassen. Niemand weiß, was bei Bitcoin-24 wirklich los ist. Die einen glauben, dass alles gut geht, die anderen sind pessimistisch und denken, dass ihr Geld schon verloren ist. Eines ist klar: Zum jetzigen Zeitpunkt ist ein riesiger Rechtsstreit im Gange, der scheinbar sehr viel Zeit kostet und von dem niemand – Simon eingeschlossen – weiß, wie er ausgeht. Wir möchten uns vorbereiten und die Möglichkeit einer Sammelklage gegen Bitcoin-24 in Erwägung ziehen. Für den Fall, dass wir keine Fortschritte sehen, nicht ausreichend informiert werden, alles einfach zu lange dauert und wir nicht in absehbarer Zeit an unsere Funds gelangen, machen wir von unserem Recht Gebrauch. Lasst uns gemeinsam etwas unternehmen! Wir freuen und über Eure Unterstützung! Bitte besucht uns auf www.btc24-help.com und verbreitet diesen Link.
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